Dr. Juanita Collier: Welcome to the It Could Be Your Eyes podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Juanita Collier. Through my decades of work in the field of vision, I have met thousands of patients, parents, educators, therapists, and doctors searching for solutions to the seemingly unsolvable. Challenging traditional medicine's new normal?
We'll uncover that the root cause isn't necessarily what you thought it might be. It could be your eyes.
Jessica Liedke: Hi everybody in built to read. Hello. Hope everybody is doing well. It's the end of summer and where I am, it is really rainy, blustery, icky. So I hope you guys are doing okay, not dealing too bad with late end of summer crazies with the kids and whatnot. How you doing, Dr. Collier?
Dr. Juanita Collier: I'm doing well. I'm happy to be here. I haven't been on one of these in a while.
Jessica Liedke: I know. So exciting. We thought we'd come on live and chat a little bit about some of the questions that we've been getting from Delta readers over Facebook, over email, when they come in for their re evaluations, different questions that we've been fielding lately.
So if you are watching this and you also have any other questions or any thoughts on what we've said, please feel free to comment them and we will be able to answer them as soon as we see them pretty quickly. So, Dr. Collier, I've been getting some questions about what to do when kiddos are not really feeling their exercise that day and they're not into it at the moment.
What can parents do to help them get back on track or stay on track?
Dr. Juanita Collier: I think that making the activities fun is the biggest way that we can do anything. And so a lot of times what I'll do is I'll have the kiddos choose which order they want to do the activities in. And that works for a couple sessions.
You know, obviously it's not going to work every time, but if there is a particular activity that they enjoy, then I have them do that one every single time until they don't enjoy it anymore. But that's like our goal activity, like the one that we get to like, work for. And then also competition makes things a lot more interesting for a lot of the kids.
Even if you're competing with your child to see who can do it faster or who can get more of the letters or something like that. They tend to like that quite a bit. And then a lot of the activities you can do with definitely with the built to read activities you can do with siblings. If you can have a competition between the two siblings and that's fun too and then everybody's getting a little built to read vision going on.
So I think that those things usually help quite a bit.
Jessica Liedke: Awesome. Those are really good tips too. Yeah. I can get my son to do anything if I make it a race. Like I can make him go to bed. I can make him brush his teeth. I can make him get to the car. I can make him get dressed. If I make it a race, I bet I can do it faster than you.
Boom, all of a sudden it's done. It's like, it's amazing. So what about when activities get really hard, and then they're just like, really struggling more than parents expect them to, if you look at an activity and you're like, Oh, this seems really easy. And then they're having a really hard time with it or conversely, you look at this and you're like, Oh my gosh, this is really hard for me. How can I expect my kid to be able to do this? Do you have any thoughts on like how we should be framing it for them in that case?
Dr. Juanita Collier: I think that built to read is designed in a way that it looks like gameplay, but some of the activities are really, really tricky, and I think that's very eye opening for parents, because if we're asking our kiddos to, you know, do something like look, touch, back, and, you know, they're pointing to the target, they're touching their ear, then they're going to another target, and you see how difficult that is, it kind of makes you think of how difficult sports activities are, or how difficult reading might be, Or how difficult copying from the board might be like all of these things that require that sort of attention and that sort of gross motor coordination and by motor coordination and to see that your kid is struggling that much with it, I think, is very eye opening to parents. And what we can do is really break down those activities, so make them a little bit easier.
You can have them touch bouncy balls and just have them taped to a cardboard until that's easy. And then it can be smaller targets, smaller targets until it's. The stickers because then the child can have fun with it without making it a big struggle because once the child thinks that this is too hard for me to do, that's when things get really hard as a parent to like try to force them to do it.
Like you want to figure out how to make every activity fun as fun as you can possibly make it. So for my kids, they really love like colorful stickers. So, you know, my, me, mom just got my daughter some carnival stickers. So she like created a whole carnival scene. Those are things that you can use that are going to be a little bit more exciting than just boring, like dots on a cardboard.
Jessica Liedke: Definitely. Or like themed kind of things too. Like if you entice like... Now my son is really into Mario. Used to be Sonic, now it's Mario. We're branching out. You know, if I can make anything Mario themed and like, sometimes even kiddos here will be like, okay, we have to touch the power up and come back down.
And you got to change it up so that it relates to something that they're really into. And I also think it's worth to, if something is really hard, even if, you know, you're trying to make it as exciting and wonderful, but it's hard. There's an element of resilience building in here, and so one of the things that I keep echoing is, I feel like Glennon Doyle, you know, saying like, yes, this is hard, and you can do hard things, and we can do hard things together.
And so it's like acknowledging that this may not be the easiest thing for them, but then just also saying. You've done hard things before, you can do this hard thing too, and we're gonna get through it together.
Dr. Juanita Collier: And that's so true, and like, I just took my kids to Super Mario World, actually, in Universal Studios, and that was...
Jessica Liedke: you just lived Hal's dream.
Dr. Juanita Collier: It was really fun. However, they had some pretty tricky games there, and you know, a lot of them are things that require precise visuals. skills and everything. So of course, I was like in my glee, like, Oh my goodness, this is amazing having all these kids work so hard and they think it's fun. But again, with those, you can do hard things.
Some of the things were really tricky and having them have that experience where it's like, yes, this is hard, but it's also rewarding and having them get a reward at the end. So it's like for what they do there is you have to get three keys to get into like the secret world or something like that. But when you get into the secret world, it's all like interactive.
And now like you're Mario and you're jumping up and pressing the pals and everything like on this virtual screen. It's really cool, but you have to like work to get there. So if you decide to quit beforehand, then you don't get the secret world at the end. And so it's really, it was something where my son was kind of like, I don't know about this.
This is hard. And I'm like, Addison's going to be able to get to go to the secret world. So what's going to happen with you? And then he figured it out and he did it, but it was like that competition, but also that goal, that light at the end of the tunnel, that I think all of us need and kids. We think that children should do things just because they're supposed to do it or because I said so, which is, it used to work in my house before they could talk, but now that they can.
That does. So there has to be some sort of reward. And I think for me, what works really well is that internal reward so that they're figuring out what it is that they want at the end, because I think that we can be like, Oh, do you want ice cream? Do you want that? And then by the time you come to your list of 12 different things that now they're getting when they've completed their tasks, it's still not the thing that they would have come up with.
And so I think that's a good idea to help have them figure out what is it that they want, what is it that they desire, and then that can be the goal that they're working toward.
Jessica Liedke: Ooh, I like that. Yeah, let them come up with some sort of reward. That's going to be like, Ooh, okay, I really want that. I'm going to do this... cool.
Now, I have had some parents reach out when they've been doing Belt to Read and or maybe they're like in the beginning, some of them in the middle, some even towards the end. And they're like, some strange things have been happening, different changes in my child, like they now all of a sudden are noticing that.
They're winking at the TV, or they might have a little bit of, I've even heard as much as a tick that wasn't as apparent before. Where should parents start to be concerned and want to look further into why this is happening, or where should they expect these sorts of changes to be just part of run of the mill course changes during built to read?
Dr. Juanita Collier: I think that if you're a parent with concerns, then you should be concerned. And so I think that you should definitely reach out and make sure that whatever you're seeing is normal. And I think that the only way to know that is to ask the question. I know that there's a lot of wait and see that's thrown around.
And that's not, as a parent speaking, that's not my method of figuring out what's wrong with my child. And so I think that if I think something's wrong, then that's enough for me to think that something's wrong. I think that definitely reach out. We're here where you can call us, text us, email, write us on Facebook, send smoke signals, whatever you need to do, but definitely get in touch with us because if it is something that might be concerning, we can help you find somebody in your area that can help look into it because it's better safe and sorry. Like, I'd rather be overly precautious than just think like, oh, it's just something that my kid's doing for some reason. Some things that we do see commonly are, like Jess said, like closing an eye, but there's a good chance that your child was closing their eye before and you just didn't notice it because that's just how they've always done things.
And now that you're paying so so much more attention to their vision and what they're doing with their eyes. And it's like, Oh, I didn't realize that they had that head tilt before. Let's look back at some pictures and see, cause most likely it was there. It's just now you're like, Oh, this could actually mean something.
So now that you know what to look for, you're seeing it more. And so I think that's something to keep in mind. But a tick, like Jess was saying, it depends on what a tick. means. And so a tick is different to every person. And so I think that if you think that what you're seeing is a tick, then you should go to a doctor and see if it's actually a tick and then have the doctor say, no, it's nothing, and then we're good. But I don't think that's something that you should necessarily ignore. So I think even with the closing the only thing like if you do think that it's new and everybody else around you also thinks that think that it's new, then you should probably go get it checked out. But a lot of times grandma has seen that already.
So a lot of times grandma's like, Oh no, they always did that. And you just never paid attention. I didn't say anything or like things like that. So I think that it's a good idea just to like crowdsource a little bit and see like, Oh, is this something that you've seen them doing before? Or, you know, a lot of mom or dad have seen it as well.
So it's Oh yeah, but I used to do that when I was little too, but that doesn't make it normal. So it is, it is something that's been like a lot of times parents have experienced the same vision issues as their child did. And so if you just ask, I had one parent who was saying that their child started noticing that they were seeing double when they were reading.
The dad was like, Oh, but that's like only after like five minutes of reading and she was like, yeah, and he's like, yeah, that's totally fine. That's what I did. That's what I do now. And she's like, I don't think that's normal. I don't think that's what's supposed to happen. And we fixed it. But you know, it's like a lot of parents just think that things are normal just like the kids thought it was normal too.
Jessica Liedke: Exactly. Yeah, it's a interesting line of apples falling from trees and all that. But if you see something, say something right? You're noticing things and it could be nothing or it could be something. And so we're here to hash that out.
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The beautiful thing is that a lot of our children also have a lot of other supports. So that actually brings me to the. Other question too, some parents have asked if it's okay if they bring built to read activities to their OT or their support staff at school.
If their kids are already working on other things that are related or similar and they also get OT services or other supports, is it okay if they bring their activities to OT and have that professional work with them on their exercises?
Dr. Juanita Collier: So the thing about that is usually if we're having an occupational therapist incorporate vision exercises in, we'll do that more on an individualized basis because we're treating a particular diagnosis that the OT can assist in working with, especially if there's resistance to practicing at home and things of that nature.
However, Built to Read was designed very specifically to replicate the process of visual development. And the key to Built to Read is that daily repetition. So having your OT do it with your child instead of you doing it every day, having them do it like once a week or twice a week or something like that will not create the results that would be achieved if an OT was actually following the doctor's plan.
So I think that while it might seem easier to have the OT do it, built to read won't work in that fashion. Built to read is working on the brain's ability to change through repetition. So the neuroplasticity of the brain, and we're really restructuring how the brain developed. And that's not something that can be achieved in one or two sessions a week.
So we don't recommend occupational therapists to incorporate those activities. That would be a completely different program, not built to read because built to read is different. It's for parents.
Jessica Liedke: Exactly. I think OTs want to help out. They're spectacular at knowing your child and knowing what works. And for that reason too, you can ask them for tips because they work with your child more often in a more clinical setting than what you have at home.
But if you are having some resistance, be like, okay, so how do you make? Johnny do what Johnny needs to do. You can get that sort of tip and help from those professionals that are used to doing clinical things with your child, but yeah, having them just be the ones to carry out the practice is not going to get you the results that, that you're looking for.
So I think that's a really good point. If they did want to do a full on Treatment plan with their occupational therapist to also work on vision, then that's something that you would want to work with us or whoever your optometrist is to really develop a plan. But it's better to do this one at home because then too, you get to have that sort of relationship building with your kid too, which I think is one of the coolest things that we've seen come out of this program.
Dr. Juanita Collier: Exactly. And I think that just to reiterate what you were saying, occupational therapists are such a wealth of knowledge when it comes to helping you figure out what works for your child. I think that definitely asking them like what tips they have as far as motivating and how to make things easier and things like that would be very helpful if you have an occupational therapist that you are already working with.
But as far as achieving the results, we want to either have them have a treatment plan that they're following that was developed by bus or your optometrist and doing it that way because built to read is a separate entity that requires different skills.
Jessica Liedke: Exactly. So, what if a parent has been doing built to read and they scheduled their three month checkup right the day they had their initial checkup and then, or exam, and then they, got built to read.
They got started right away. They scheduled their reevaluation three months down the road at that appointment because they're so excited. We're going to get this done three months. And then life happened, especially over the summer. And then you are like coming up on that three month point, but you're still on phase four or phase five. Is it worth keeping the three month appointment at that point? Or should you push it off until you finish the program?
Dr. Juanita Collier: I think that depends on the optometrist that recommended you to do built to read and that is doing your follow up. So for our office, I would like the patient to complete the program because I designed the program and I know what I'm looking forward to see at the end of it.
So that's what I would prefer as opposed to having them come in like you said in Facebook. And then I need to see them back four weeks later after they finish phase six, so I wouldn't really need to see them unless parents are noticing something that they've considered to be a concern. And so if they are starting to see something different that they are concerned about, I obviously want to see them as soon as possible.
But otherwise, I personally. I want to see them once they've completed the program. It's self directed, it's self paced. You know, if you're seeing that your child is having a lot of trouble in phase three, stay on phase three for longer. Like, have it be easy and then go to the next phase. There's no reason to just continue pushing through when your child hasn't solidified those skills because since this program is designed to build the foundation, we want to make sure that every level of the foundation is appropriately handled.
I would stay on phase one until all of those activities are easy, then go to phase two, and so on and so on. So I don't need to see them until after they've completed the program. But for other optometrists who are offering Viltroy to their patients, they might consider it to be something that they want to know exactly how their, the child is progressing at the 12 week point regardless of what's going on. So I think that's something for you to talk to your optometrist about.
Jessica Liedke: Exactly. And if it means that you want to give us a call around phase four, when you are not quite like at that three month mark, and you want to give us a call and say, Hey, can we look at the schedule for two weeks or four weeks or whatever, so that you kind of have that goal post now in mind.
Now that the summer is winding down and we're getting back into a routine. Okay, I know we can finish these These exercises are at least be a lot more complete in four weeks that at least gives me like a time frame where it's not just like, well, I guess I'll give you a call when we finish it because then you can get swept up in all the changes and everything. So I think it's,
Dr. Juanita Collier: yeah, that's dangerous.
Jessica Liedke: Right? So you want to have the freedom to be able to dive in where you need to, but also some structure where you don't let it slide too far. And then you're just like, oh, it'll happen when it happens because you want to see those changes. You want things to actually move ahead.
And those last couple of phases are where the rubber meets the road, where the real like integration starts to happen. So you want to get those in and you want to get those good because that's where the magic happens. Have there been any other questions that you can think of Dr. Collier that come in through the exam room?
Dr. Juanita Collier: I think that one question that comes up is for parents saying, is it okay if I do the exercises too? Because I did them and now my prescription gotten better. So things like that. And, um, built to read is very unique in that it won't hurt anybody. And so, you know, like that's really the joy in Built to Read and the magic in Built to Read because it will help essentially anybody who's doing it.
And that's different than an individualized treatment plan for vision therapy because an individualized treatment plan is specific for only the person that it was designed for, where it's built to read. Since it is building that foundation, essentially anybody can use it. And so it's a great tool to have for anybody in your homes.
If you're a parent who's noticing that you're getting some fatigue when you're on the computer and you want your eyes to be a little bit stronger, you might want to do it too and do it alongside your child. And then both of you can have that bonding experience that comes from doing hard things because it's going to be hard for you as well.
Like the stuff that we're doing is not easy. It just seems like it is. And that's the joy and the pain in it because it's like this activity looks really easy and I think that I'm not that smart anymore and it has nothing to do with your intelligence. It's just how your visual system is working and how you've been compensating and now you're teaching it a new way that's more efficient and it is good because you're building a new neurological pathway and you'll be better for it.
Jessica Liedke: Exactly. If you too, then you do belt to read and everything feels good and you've noticed changes that you want more, maybe a little bit more grown up, then you can give us a call too because we have digital options. We have things for grownups we've had in our office. We've had parent child teams and duos come in and do things with us because as we were saying before, Apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
A lot of times these things can. contend to occur more in families. And so if you do notice that maybe this is something that you should look into, you can give us a call as well. But it is, yeah, it has been fun to hear parents reactions to, Oh my gosh, that was actually really hard. Or I actually, I feel like I'm getting better here.
That's a really fun thing to witness and experience. Any other thoughts?
Dr. Juanita Collier: Yes. No. So we do have the built for life program that is for adults. And it's essentially like the built to read version for adults. It has a lot more items that help adults make everything make sense as far as the daily activities that they need to carry out.
So it's a little bit more intense than built to read as far as the other things that go into it and really like goal generating and everything like that. But it's a great program that a lot of our adults are really doing well with. And so it is an option. Um, if you're noticing that you do have some vision issues that are making things a little bit trickier, especially for work.
And so now that we're on the computer all the time and we're working from home and maybe our desks aren't in the best position because it's actually the couch and things like that, your vision probably is not. working optimally. And so it's a good idea to get it checked and work on it because you only have the two eyes.
So there's no, no others coming in.
Jessica Liedke: That's what you got. So fantastic. All right.
Dr. Juanita Collier: I'm glad I was able to join you today.
Jessica Liedke: I know I'm so excited. And if you do have any other questions, feel free to share them with the group, send them to us directly. Cause then we can address them in a future Q and A. And just, yeah, we're excited to keep on building with you guys.
Dr. Juanita Collier: Have a great day. Bye bye.
Jessica Liedke: Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the It Could Be Your Eyes Podcast.To schedule an appointment with Dr. Collier, visit us@4dvisiongym.com. To train your vision at home, visit us at 4D vision therapy@home.com. Rate and review our podcast and email a screenshot to receive 10% off a new evaluation or any of our digital programs. Subscribe to join us for more eye-opening episodes as we dive deep into all the ways that it could be your eyes.