Dr. Juanita Collier: Welcome to the It Could Be Your Eyes podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Juanita Collier. Through my decades of work in the field of vision, I have met thousands of patients, parents, educators, therapists, and doctors searching for solutions to the seemingly unsolvable. Challenging traditional medicine's new normal?
We'll uncover that the root cause isn't necessarily what you thought it might be. It could be your eyes.
Dr. Juanita Collier: Welcome back to It Could Be Your Eyes, the podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Juanita Collier, and I have my co-host Jessica Liedke with me. And today we're gonna be talking all about our little athletes and why they might not want to participate in sports.
Jessica Liedke: It can be really hard as a parent to see your child struggle to ride a bike or you get them on the T-ball team and they don't wanna play, or they whine about playing catch out in the backyard and they drop every ball and, and you're just watching your little one thinking, oh, okay. We do not have an athlete on our hands here.
Dr. Juanita Collier: Exactly. And I think that we have a lot of families that come in and they're like, oh, well we're just not an athletic family. Or, you know, my other one's the athlete, this one's the clumsy one. And it's so hard to kind of parse out what is personality and what is kind of an issue that we as parents ki need to intervene with.
And I know that for me, you know, I wasn't. A ball sport player. I chose to do cheerleading and I also then found out later that I had an eye turn and I had like no depth perception. So maybe that was the reason. Who knows? Um, and same thing with you, Jess. You were a cheerleader too, because if your turn in,
Jessica Liedke: you have no depth perception. It doesn't matter if someone is falling on you, right, or you're going up in the air,
Dr. Juanita Collier: it makes it a lot less scary cuz they don't seem like they're really gonna fall on you.
Jessica Liedke: It's, it's fine. Yeah. My dad said the same thing to me when I was growing up, but he said, although, This was the nineties. He said, your brother is better at the boy sports and you're good at the girl sports.
So he met, my brother was a football player. He was a, uh, baseball player. He was a wrestler. He was in basketball. I tried softball for a season. I tried basketball for a season, but I did really well in dance and, and cheerleading. That was my thing. And so yeah, I turn, well, technically my brother had the I turn too, but he, like, when it came to football, he was a tackler.
Again, it doesn't matter if you don't have depth perception when you're just. Bowling people over. He was, you know, more on the the defense when it came to any ball sports. So it was just like he wasn't the one that was really handling the ball. He was just doing everything else around there.
Dr. Juanita Collier: Exactly. So I think that one of the first times that it really starts to come up is with riding a bike. And you see some three and four year olds who are like, yeah, let me at it. And they're gungho about it. And then you have other kiddos that we have as patients that are like 8, 9, 10 years old and don't wanna take their training wheels off. And that can become. Very confusing for parents because you want to push them as far as like, well, you have to take chances.
You have to take risks. You know, like in riding a bike, there's so much pride at the end of like actually being successful with it. And you want to build up their confidence in themselves and like you can do it, you can do hard things. And then also, Some of these kids are actually terrified and they might have a physiological reason for that.
And in our practice, a lot of times we see that it's because, yeah, they don't have any depth perception. They have no idea where they are in space, they cannot balance, and then they just see themselves, you know, falling and breaking their leg. As my son decided. To tell me the other day is what was gonna happen when he rode a bike.
So it's like they really feel like they cannot control what's going on around them because their visual system is not giving them the information that they need.
Jessica Liedke: Not to mention when you like think about riding a bike and all that, that entails. It's a lot of bilateral and contra movement, so you're moving both sides of your body to pedal.
You know, one leg is pushing and the other is coming up, and the other leg is pushing and the other is coming up, and you're kind of like having to coordinate a lot of movement on both sides of the body. And having that sort of development, if that lags behind, then chances are you also have difficulty in your development of your binocularity, your eyes working together as a team.
Um, because you know, if one hemisphere of the brain controls one half of the body and the other half of the brain controls the other half of the body, there's that in that line in between them. The corpus callosum that. When you move both sides of the body, kind of increases that communication and that coordination throughout the body.
So if you don't have the communication and the coordination to move both of your legs appropriately with developing, you know, bike skills, then you probably also have trouble with coordinating your eyes where they're supposed to be. So you got kind of like a whole body, whole brain mess going on that that really culminates in significant difficulty. And then, anxiety about trying this high level task.
Dr. Juanita Collier: Exactly. And so I think that what we're saying is, you know, for parents that when your kiddo is having difficulty riding a bike, yes, we obviously want them to try hard things because that's just part of life, but also we wanna make sure that they have the physical tools that they need.
Are there muscles strong enough to do it? So like with my son for example, he needs to build up a little bit more muscle tone and, and you know, and I think that that will make a big difference for him. So we've been doing a lot of hill type things when he's on the, on his tricycle, so that he's getting those muscles that he needs and now he is doing pretty well.
But we had to really build up that coordination there. But then also if it is a core issue, then we want to have an occupational therapy evaluation and make sure that they have the tools that they need there. And then with the vision and the depth perception, we wanna have an evaluation with a behavioral optometrist and make sure that they have all of the foundational skills necessary to do the task that you're asking them to do.
And I think that that's where we as parents kind of get thrown off a little bit because so many of the things that. We expect our children to do are just kind of on this timeline, and not everything develops at the same time for everyone, and not everything just develops with time. So we need to kind of make sure that it's like, okay, if I want you to read this book, I need to make sure that you have the attention to read it.
I need to make sure that you have the visual skills to read it. I need to make sure that you have the visualization skills to read it. And I need to make sure that it's something that you actually want to read. Not just like, oh, you're six now. You should be able to read this. And then get into like, um, disagreements with them because they don't want to do it.
Because a lot of times our kiddos can't fully explain why they don't wanna do something. Because they're our children and we, you know, are used to them trying to get out of some things sometimes. Then it might be a little bit difficult to parse out what is, I just don't feel like listening to you right now and I'm your mom.
You're gonna listen to me cuz I said so. And um, the rest of it. So kind of just like really breaking down, like what is this task that I'm asking them to do and have they gotten all the skills necessary to do it? And then we can kind of make a decision based on that and making sure that they are fully capable of doing that.
Jessica Liedke: Exactly. I think it's, and it's, it's worth, and obviously you, you think about being child led a lot of times that you want your children to pursue what they're passionate about. You want your children to. If they're very artistic, you wanna give them every opportunity to explore that and be successful in that, to whatever that means to them.
Right. So like, my son really loves art, so we put him in art classes and, and he was exploring different mediums and he's really good at it, but like he was kind of avoiding the sportsy things. So we would always be like, Hey, do you want us to sign you up for soccer? Do you want us to do this? We'd give him the opportunities.
No, no, no, no, no. I'm not interested. Then he finally like, I don't know, for whatever reason, he just decided he wanted to try soccer, and now that he got into it, it's like he, he has the opportunity to really explore it and get into it. And now he wants to do more physical things. Now he's more excited to run around.
Now he's more excited. And was it like that he didn't have the opportunity before? No. We gave him the opportunities, but he wasn't interested in it. But now that he had the, the chance to explore it, Great. If we got him out on the soccer field and we saw, oh, oh, you know, he was kind of really, very struggling with it.
Give him some time to build up, but then that's exactly what you said. You know, you gotta make sure that he has all the tools to be able to be successful in that. So if he wasn't able to kick the ball appropriately or he'd go to swing and it's a swing and a miss constantly, then I'm gonna wonder myself because I have the knowledge.
But now you parents listening kind of can look at it in a different way. Is he able to coordinate where his body is in space and where the ball is coming up to him? So you know, is it that he's missing because. He's not paying attention and he's looking off to somewhere else in the field, or is it he's missing because he's not like aware of where everything is.
And then we can dive a little deeper.
Dr. Juanita Collier: And my son had a similar experience in that, you know, he wanted to do soccer and was actually really good at soccer. However, he's not a very good loser, and so if things did not go his way on the field, he would get very, very emotional about it. And so then we had to kind of take a step back and instead of being like, Hey, stop it, we had to be like, okay, what's going on with him? And then we had to put him in environments where it's like, well, you're not going to be good at everything that you do the first time that you do it. And when you're playing on a team, not everybody else is gonna be good either, and you guys have to work together to improve.
Mm-hmm. But also, like when we were playing Slap Jack and things like that, it's like, well, I guess you're gonna lose this round. Like we're, we're actually really playing, like we're not building up your confidence and winning. Like now you will win when you're better than us. And that's kinda the, the turn that we need to make in the house.
Jessica Liedke: We, uh, have a little bit of the same, our sons are friends. For you, listeners, that, that's kind of why I think,
Dr. Juanita Collier: and they're both artists. Artists,
Jessica Liedke: yeah. They're artists. They're sensitive. They're strong-willed. They are competitive in a lot of ways that Yeah, if it doesn't go quite the way of that, they expect.
We've had some, some sideline conversations, deep breaths and yeah, so I think, but that's exactly it, right? It's knowing who your personality is, right? Because that's a personality thing. They're strong-willed. They love to win. They love when things go right and they feel deeply. They have these big feelings and, and that's great.
That's how they are who they are. We love their deep feelings.
Dr. Juanita Collier: And it also goes into the preparedness though, so it's like we can say like their visual systems aren't strong enough to do this task, so we need to take a step back and build up those visual skills. But also as far as their ability to handle adversity, that's something that we both saw that our kiddos aren't strong enough in.
So we need to build up that ability, you know, because you're not going to win at everything that you do, and you're not going to win like the first time you do everything. That's not actually a thing. So great that you would like to win. Wonderful. So does everybody else. And we need to build up the skills as far as being able to handle adversity, because adversity is kind of a guaranteed part of life.
So what are you going to do with it? And so I think that by having them in those situations, we were able to see the areas that could be developed further. Mm-hmm. As opposed to being like, oh, Wesley doesn't need to play soccer anymore because he doesn't like it. He'd rather just do art. That's not actually true.
He just doesn't un No. He doesn't have the skills that he needs to be able to play a team sport yet, so let's build up those skills that he needs to be able to play a team sport.
Jessica Liedke: Exactly.
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Dr. Juanita Collier: So we talked about bike riding and we also talked about. Soccer. But in our office we've actually had quite a few kiddos have difficulty with swimming, and that's not necessarily something that people would attribute to their visual system. However, the big thing that our patients have seen improvements in through doing vision therapy is their kiddos feel uncomfortable jumping into the pool.
Jessica Liedke: For one example, we had a little boy who once he was in the pool was fine. He was a fish. He would swim everywhere, but he would stand on the outside and just, he could not, he would not jump in. No matter how much enthusiasm his. You know, mom, his swimming teachers, like everybody could be like, come on, come on, come on, you can do it. Like, pump 'em up, give 'em all this big talk and, uh, nope, nope, will not do it.
Dr. Juanita Collier: And they were thinking it was like an anxiety thing. Yeah. They weren't sure what was going on because it seemed like he wanted to, and they weren't positive. But mom kind of didn't even tell us this because she brought him because he was having reading difficulties.
It didn't even occur to her. Exactly. So he was in Kumon and he wasn't progressing and you know, he was reading at grade level, but she expected him to be reading so much higher than grade level due to his other abilities. So we were doing vision therapy working on that. And then she came in one day and she's like, he jumped in the pool and like, she was like so shocked as to how that was all connected.
Jessica Liedke: Yeah, it was a pretty cool experience because you know, I think when as a parent you're going through these therapeutic experiences, you can learn a lot just about how your kid functions and how. Our whole systems function and so we pride ourselves here at 4d. When we have patients in the office, we really try to explain to the parents what's happening and how to do their exercises and why that's important.
So parents learn, you know, to kind of look at their world a little bit differently and the same. And in built to read, obviously we are really educating parents on the visual system and the impact it has on our daily life. So she started kind of looking at her child in a different way and then was able to come in and be like, oh my God, I gotta tell you guys didn't think it had anything to do with anything, but this is what happened.
And he was, he was a really bright kid. He was very funny, very just smart and athletic. He was athletic. He was the kind of kid who would run around and he was playing sports and things. But that hurdle was because he really could not understand the depths of where the water was, and especially even like the surface of the water in the bottom of the pool, like looking in that.
That could be two inches. As far as he knows, there is no
Dr. Juanita Collier: two inches or 20 feet. Who knows?
Jessica Liedke: I don't know what it's, but it's not enough for my, my body. So that was a really cool thing to, to hear about. So yeah, we've seen it. We've seen it a bit.
Dr. Juanita Collier: And then also even thinking about different sports. So we had one patient who, her son was like really good at soccer and she was super excited and then his best friend started playing lacrosse.
So she got him all the equipment to play and he went out for that first game or the first practice, and he had such difficulty figuring out how to pick the ball up with that little. Stick and really trying to figure out how to maneuver it, that he tried it that one time and never wanted to play a gun.
Mom couldn't understand it. She was like, he's actually really good at like basketball and soccer and things like that. And what we needed to explain to her and how that was different is because the target for lacrosse is so much smaller than a soccer ball or a basketball, but also with a soccer ball and a basketball, he's using his actual body.
So that allows him to understand where that is in space versus where he is in space. Now he has this extra appendage of the stick, and so now he needs to figure out how to maneuver that stick. And also he's no longer interacting directly with the target. So that was too hard for him to figure out visually because then he has to understand how long that stick is.
He has to understand how small the target is, and then he also needs to have that muscle coordination on how to maneuver it. And your brain tells your eyes and your body how to. Conduct itself in space. And that was just too much information that was needing to be processed for that, for that target. And so he started doing to read.
And so, you know, through that he was able to develop those skills and really understand how his body interacts with space. And then he gets a full new confidence as a result of that. So it's not that like, oh, I hate lacrosse. It's, Hey, this difference is a little too different for me. And I need, I'm, it's showing us an area that we can improve upon because there's some sort of disconnect in how my brain and my eyes and my body are processing the space around it.
Jessica Liedke: Exactly. So I think our takeaway today really is that on this podcast we talk a lot about vision and how it's more than 20 20 and all the different ways that it impacts us in our life, as we grow, as we develop, it really can guide how we see ourselves and who we are and what we do. So just as we have talked about growing up, hearing that you're not a good reader, you believe that about yourself because it's really hard for you, then you turn into someone who isn't much of a reader who avoids it, who quote unquote hates reading. And same thing with like sports. You try things out, you're in gym class, you have to do all these different physical tasks. Doesn't come easy to you. That's just who you are now. You just aren't an athlete.
That's just, I just don't play lacrosse. I just don't swim. I just don't ride a bike or looking at our kids through like a parenting lens, giving them all the tools that they could possibly need. What other ways do we need to prepare our kids to be able to do the things that they want to do, need to do, may want to do in the future?
You know, because you never know pickleball is really big along adults now. Right? I've never been a pickleball player before in my life, but if I get invited, I wanna be ready.
Dr. Juanita Collier: Oh, the mommys in my circle go Wednesday mornings if that's up your alley. I have, they have not roped me in yet. Maybe someday.
Okay. Well hopefully this was informative to you. And we hope that if you like this episode, you share it, rate us and we will see you next time.
Jessica Liedke: Bye.
Jessica Liedke: Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the It Could Be Your Eyes Podcast.To schedule an appointment with Dr. Collier, visit us@4dvisiongym.com. To train your vision at home, visit us at 4D vision therapy@home.com. Rate and review our podcast and email a screenshot to receive 10% off a new evaluation or any of our digital programs. Subscribe to join us for more eye-opening episodes as we dive deep into all the ways that it could be your eyes.