Dr. Juanita Collier: Welcome to the It Could Be Your Eyes podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Juanita Collier. Through my decades of work in the field of vision, I have met thousands of patients, parents, educators, therapists, and doctors searching for solutions to the seemingly unsolvable. Challenging traditional medicine's new normal?
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Hi, and welcome back to It Could Be Your Eyes. I'm your host, Dr. Juanita Collier, and I have my co-host Jessica Liedke with me, and today we are talking all about B V D Binocular Vision Dysfunction, or some people call it binocular vision Disorder. So it's kind of been all the rage in social media, so we kind of wanted to take some time out and talk a little bit about it and have people get a little bit more of an understanding to see if there's something you wanna inquire about.
Jessica Liedke: Exactly. We've had people coming to us because they have symptoms that don't seem to be able to be explained in. Any other way, dizziness, motion sickness, real discomfort when driving down the road and the light filters through the trees, and, uh, feeling kind of very discombobulated or, or really uneasy because of that car sickness, just feeling really unsteady on their feet and there's no real reason for it that they can tell.
So then people start searching and looking for answers. And binocular vision disorder has become like a buzzword, catchall. And so people call us wondering if that's what they have.
Dr. Juanita Collier: So according to optometrists.org, which has a lot of great information on there, that's where a lot of the behavioral optometrists are listed.
They define binocular vision disfunction as a condition where the eyes are slightly misaligned and the eyes struggle to send one clear image to the brain. It can cause a variety of symptoms such as dizziness, motion sickness, headache, and light sensitivity. So just kinda what Jess was talking about, when the information is coming in differently than your brain is kind of expecting it to, then it needs to kind of make sense of what it's seen.
So when those two eyes are not pointing the same direction at the same time, or sometimes they are and sometimes they aren't. Which is what happens in binocular vision dysfunction. Then the brain has to kind of fill in the blanks quite a bit, and that can give space the sensation of moving or feeling like you're not really stable on your feet and that sort of thing.
A lot of patients with binocular vision dysfunction tend to be more symptomatic than patients with like the more common convergence insufficiency because. Sometimes your eyes are working okay. Sometimes they're not. Sometimes they're crossed too much. Sometimes they're not crossed enough. They're just in this kind of constant state of flux, and so there's no real way for your brain to kind of get its feet under it, so to speak.
Jessica Liedke: Exactly. And so that can feel really disconcerting, right? Because then you're not sure of where you are, or rather, your brain isn't sure of where you are and what to do with your eyes at any given point. So then, You're just left in this state of constant flux in change. And that can be really scary. And I think it seems that a lot of people with binocular vision disorder that we see, it can be a very emotional thing because you know, a lot of our patients have been through so much trying to figure out what is actually going on with them and then, Their typical routine.
Doctors say, well, there's nothing actually wrong with you. So, you know, and then they're like, well, am I crazy? Is this real? Am I imagining it? And I think that that can be a really hard. Journey to go through until you end up somewhere like in front of Dr. Collier and then she says, no, you're not crazy.
This is actually real and this is something that we can change. So here we go. Or, or people that are told, yeah, maybe something is wrong, but there's nothing we can do about it. So good luck.
Dr. Juanita Collier: And I think that the thing with social media really advocating for a binocular vision disorder and really allowing people to kind of see that, you know, their symptoms.
They're not the only one who are experiencing this symptom. There's a big community that's out there that is kind of going through the same thing, and there are a lot of other vision dysfunctions that cause those same symptoms. Right? And so binocular vision disorder is not the only one. There are many disorders of binocular vision.
Binocular vision dysfunction is very, very specific in that your quantitative data, the quantitative findings, actually show that you're sometimes crossing your eyes, sometimes relaxing them out too much, and sometimes they are perfectly aligned. That's kind of the hallmark quantitatively. Speaking of binocular vision, dysfunction itself.
Now, as I said, there are many, many other binocular vision disorders that can happen. There is convergence insufficiency, which is very, very common. That's when your eyes have a tendency to drift out quite a bit, especially when you're looking up close. A lot of times people who get that can get double vision when they're reading.
They can have the words seeming like they're moving when they're reading. They can have difficulty keeping track when they're reading. They can have a lot of those kind of like heady feelings when they're reading or feeling eye strain, eye pulling, that sort of thing. And that's not. Binocular vision dysfunction.
That is a disorder of binocular vision, and so it's really important to go to a doctor familiar with diagnosing all of these different conditions so that then you can be diagnosed properly because the appropriate treatment comes from the appropriate diagnosis. So we've had some patients come in who are full on exo trope, so their eyes like totally out to the side and they see double and they're not having appropriate depth perception and all of that, and they're kinda like, Nope, I write a bad and I have binocular division dysfunction, and it's.
Hard to convince somebody that what they think they have, that social media told them that they have might not be what they have. And the treatment for binocular vision dysfunction is very, very different than the treatment for Shamus. So an eye turn. And so, you know, just like going to somebody who you know is able to diagnose these things that have appropriate experience in diagnosing these things, that will really lead the treatment.
As opposed to coming in with diagnosis and then kind of trying to get the treatment to fit that diagnosis.
Jessica Liedke: Dr. Google is a wonderful tool in that so many people don't know that binocular vision disorder is a thing or didn't know until it became more widely recognized and talked about and communities formed.
It is also there where you know you might have something completely different and you have to then say, well, Actually, we have this going on just talking about then the treatment for these conditions. We get asked right off the bat quite often about prisms and prism glasses. So Dr. Collier, can you tell us more about why prisms aren't always necessarily the best option or when they might be prescribed for binocular vision disorder?
Dr. Juanita Collier: Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about what prisms are in general, and so that kind of also will help you when you're going to your eye doctor's office to kind of know what you're asking for and to be able to advocate for yourself. And so what prisms do they redirect the way that the light is coming into the visual system, and so a prism can redirect the light to the left, to the right, up, down, and based on how your visual system is wired.
And how your eyes are working together, that can be helpful in certain situations, and so if your eyes have a tendency to drift out quite a bit, then wearing prisms that bring the image out to where your eyes are might actually be helpful. Some other doctors will treat it so that if your eyes are drifting out quite a bit, they'll move the image in more to promote you learning how to cross your eyes better.
So while the same diagnosis is there, while the same quantitative findings are there, two doctors might treat that very, very differently. And so really kind of understanding what the purpose of a prism is and how it's going to change how you're seeing space, because that's really what it's doing. It's changing how space is being presented to your visual system.
And then the important piece is how your brain and your eyes then react to that change in space. A doctor will usually try both directions to see which one causes the desired result of your particular condition, and how your brain decides to react to that change in space. So then when we're thinking about binocular vision dysfunction or disorder, what you can do is you can also have the prisms going in the same direction.
So you can have prisms moving everything up or moving everything down, and sometimes that doesn't really seem like it makes that that much sense. But when you move space up, then a lot of times you'll kind of like rock back on your heels and that will help you feel a bit more grounded in your body.
Some people will rock back on their heels and then do a counteraction where they go back on their toes and that helps 'em feel more grounded. And so it really just has to be tried on so that your brain, we can see how your brain reacts to the different prisms, and sometimes prisms will just mess everything up.
Because if you give lenses that in the office work for five minutes, that does not mean that they'll work for five hours. So really, I think depending on how that doctor wants to treat that particular issue is the big take home because they're going to be paying attention to not only does this provide, you know, immediate relief.
And then it won't provide long-term relief, or maybe it will provide both, or maybe it won't provide immediate relief, but it will provide long-term relief. So kind of just really seeing that there's a lot of different tools in the behavioral optometrist toolbox that can be used to help get to your goal of feeling more stable in your surroundings and really understanding space appropriately.
Because when you're. Reporting dizziness or that vertigo feeling and not feeling like really setting on your feet. All of that is how your brain is proceeding space. So vision therapy and prison lenses will help change how your brain perceives space, but not all changes for the better.
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So often in our office, we will also take patients with binocular vision disorder or other binocular visual delays and treat them therapeutically and so we will help their brain reorganize.
Space so that it makes more sense. We're really working the dorsal stream of processing, so helping the brain understand where they are, where other things are in relationship to them, and what that means for what they need to do with their eyes. So they may not actually need the prisms to guide that development because we can do it therapeutically, either in the office or virtually and digitally.
Which is a really cool thing that, um, we can offer now to so many patients.
Dr. Juanita Collier: And so I guess a question that people might have is, how would it be possible to treat something like this digitally?
Jessica Liedke: Well, what we do, um, in our programs like 4D Built For Life is we guide patients through, or even just. People through progressive exercises that are designed to, again, rebalance the processing streams of the brain so that they really understand where they are and where other things are in relationship to them.
So we're making sure that their eyes can move appropriately in response to visual stimulus that they can focus up. Close and far away that they understand how to use their two eyes as a team, and that their brain understands how to process all that visual information and integrate it into their lives so that those skills are quick, easy, automatic, no matter what it is that they're doing.
They know how to react with their eyes and their visual system. So digitally we give you all the tools that teach you exactly what you're supposed to be doing, how you're supposed to do it, and then how to incorporate those skills into your life. So you don't necessarily need me or another therapist right there.
By your side, we give you all these tools virtually through videos. We give you written instructions, we give you the actual tools that you need with patches or lenses or whatever, worksheets, et cetera, so that you are gaining the skills on your own and we're empowering you to make a difference for yourself.
Dr. Juanita Collier: And the really good thing about that, or one of the really good things about it, I should say, or that you can really do it at your own pace. Mm-hmm. And a lot of times what happens in vision therapy is we can get some people who are like super, super. Like me, like super, super competitive and it's like, ooh, I will beat whatever the system is and what's the highest lens that you have and let me do that one.
And you know, that doesn't actually produce the long-term everyday effects. It's more like strength training and strength training if for your visual system isn't actually what we need to be doing. We're retraining how your brain is taking in information and then now outputting into that environment.
Shrink training prism lenses is not actually going to teach your brain how to see space appropriately so that now you feel stable on your feet. What it's going to do is make the muscles, the six muscles surrounding your eyes stronger, which you know, that's great. If you were in a. Body lifting contest with your eye muscles.
But what you wanna do is feel more stable when you're walking down the street. That's actually not necessary. And so really kind of understanding that the reason why you feel off is because your brain is not interpreting what's happening around you appropriately. And that a, that process actually needs to be trained or retrained.
Then you can. Take all the tools that we're providing you to kind of tweak it to yourself and see what actually works for you. Like maybe this certain exercise really helps you before you go on a drive and maybe this other exercise helps you before you go on a hike and maybe this other one helps you before you sit down at your computer for eight hours.
It really kind of allows you to cater your tools to your actual needs, which is really, really one of the main benefits of the digital courses that we have.
Jessica Liedke: Exactly, and we love seeing our patients in the office. We have been able to witness such transformations here, but it has been. Super special for us to see the kind of progress and transformation that people are able to make on their own.
And also just kind of how empowering that can be because especially with something like Vernacular Vision Disorder, you feel so. Out of control because everything is changing constantly. You're not quite sure why things are the way they are. You're not sure why you're so uncomfortable. And then through these programs, we hand the reins back to you.
You feel more in control again because you are the one that's making the changes. You're the one that's making the progress. You're the one that's. Actually putting in the work so that when it starts to pay off, it feels that much better because no one did it for you. You did it for yourself. And that's a, a huge gift to yourself really.
Dr. Juanita Collier: And then also with that thinking as far as, you know, not really knowing what, what to expect because your visual assistant's giving you such inaccurate or misaligned information, that also leads to sympathetic. Overdrive. And so then you're kind of like constantly like rubbed up and you have higher cortisol levels and things like that.
And so also with the digital program, we incorporate a lot of things to kind of work on that. So Jess, can you speak a little bit to that?
Jessica Liedke: Yeah. So the very first thing that we ask all of our digital members to do is define their why. And you know, you can say, well, I don't wanna be dizzy anymore. Great. No one wants to be dizzy, but why is that important to you?
I don't wanna be dizzy because I feel uncomfortable when I'm driving. Okay. So why is that important to you? Because when I drive, I have my child in the car and I then feel really unsafe and I don't wanna put my child in danger. Okay. So why is that important to you? I don't wanna put my child impor in danger because they're the most important thing in my life.
And you know, it's kind of like you. Are continually refining and refining and redefining why you're doing something. And so if you have the full drill down piece, that is more important. I think people are more likely to act when they fully understand why they're doing it, and it's not just because they wanna feel better, they wanna feel better for a reason, and so we work.
Just with that in the forefront of the program. And then throughout the program, we also have other tools that help connect the mindset and motivation behind why we keep doing this. Because, you know, transformation is hard and making changes is hard. Just like, you know, going to the gym every day or keeping up with a nutrition program or.
Devoting time to a, a spiritual practice, whatever it may be for you, is not always easy because life happens. And so we need to continually reconnect to why these things are important. So we offer tools like guided meditations or E F T, emotional freedom technique tapping so that you find a way to just continually reconnect to your why and understand.
That things can get better if you really devote yourself, if you really put in the work and put in the time. If you want your why to work out, we are here with you, even if we're not physically next to you and giving you the tools of all the areas of your life so that you can overcome those barriers.
Dr. Juanita Collier: And I think that that's really the big thing because so often we're thinking of our vision as you know, that 2020 distance eyesight, and then now with binocular vision dysfunction, getting all of this. Attention. People are thinking like, oh, it's because the muscles aren't working properly. But it's so much deeper than that.
It's really what our brain is doing with the visual information, how our brain is interpreting what we're seeing. And it's not only what we're seeing right in front of us, but it's also how we're seeing ourselves too. Mm-hmm. And so being able to kind of incorporate all of that. So really to look at how you're seeing space, how you're seeing yourself, how you're seeing things interact with each other, how you're seeing yourself interact with other things, and how all of that kind of comes together can impact how you conduct yourself in the world.
And I think that it's so great that. People are starting to see that vision is so much more than that, and I think that this buzz around binocular vision dysfunction has really empowered so many people to really take control over how they are seeing the world and how they're interacting with the world.
It's really exciting that this is happening, but we wanted to give you guys a little bit of actual science behind it so I can kind of all come full circle as far as like fully making sense with what the brain is actually being asked to do, what the eye muscles are actually being asked to do, and how those two things can connect appropriately and really have like a very well coordinated system or have a very uncoordinated system.
And a lot of our patients come in with very uncoordinated systems and kind of think that it's like a. Magic wand that we can just kinda like switch it on and then now you're miraculously coordinated and it's not. And it's not about just getting stronger eye muscles. That's not it either. And it's not all about mindset.
It's not all just one thing. It's how everything works together. And so binocular vision dysfunction is definitely a diagnosis and a lot of people have it. And there are a lot of other binocular vision dysfunctions out there that have different quantitative values that lead to a diagnosis and. A behavioral optometrist will be able to treat all of those things.
I think our real take home is for you to go find a behavioral optometrist in your area that knows exactly how to diagnose these things in different ways, on, on treating them, and different perspectives on how to work with each person's brain. And if you can't, then, like Jess said, we do have quite a few digital programs that can help walk you through and redevelop how your brain is seeing the world through your eyes.
Jessica Liedke: Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the It Could Be Your Eyes Podcast.To schedule an appointment with Dr. Collier, visit us@4dvisiongym.com. To train your vision at home, visit us at 4D vision therapy@home.com. Rate and review our podcast and email a screenshot to receive 10% off a new evaluation or any of our digital programs. Subscribe to join us for more eye-opening episodes as we dive deep into all the ways that it could be your eyes.