How Can I Better Advocate For My Child? with guest Michele Hillman

It can be scary when the school system says "it's totally fine" but YOU as a parent know it's the complete opposite.

In this episode we welcome Michele Hillman, mother of two, global public speaker and advocate for Vision Therapy & Autism. She was compelled to co-create the Facebook group Vision Therapy Parents Unite due to her son's multiple misdiagnosis and the great support she found in vision therapy to aid his functioning.

Michele's advocacy work has made a significant impact on the lives of many parents and children. Her Facebook group serves as a resource for parents seeking information and support for their children's vision issues and connects them with vision therapy doctors in their area.

In this episode you’ll hear about:

(04:20) Michele's journey with vision issues and her son's strabismus surgery.
(09:43) Finding help and advocacy for child's education.
(18:10) How Michele's son's double vision was discovered.
(22:00) Stepping outside of the mainstream healthcare system to find more  functional avenues for treatment.
(26:47) How vision impacts various body systems including speech development.
(35:50) "Vision Therapy Parents Unite" Facebook Group.

Resources & Links

Join the Vision Therapy Parents Unite Facebook group

Follow us at 4D Vision Gym on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/4Dvisiongym) and Instagram (@4dvisiongymvt) for the latest news and updates. DM us if you have any Vision Therapy related questions - you may hear the answer in a future episode!

If you enjoyed this show, please rate, review, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. We really appreciate your support!
Send us a screenshot of your review and receive 10% off any one of our 4D Vision Gym products or services. And if your friends or family are experiencing inexplicable challenges, refer them to this podcast and tell them, “It Could Be Your Eyes.” 

Transcript

Dr. Juanita Collier: Welcome to the It Could Be Your Eyes podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Juanita Collier. Through my decades of work in the field of vision, I've met thousands of patients, parents, educators, therapists, and doctors searching for solutions to the seemingly unsolvable challenging traditional medicine's. New normal, we'll uncover that the root cause isn't necessarily what you thought it might be.

It could be your eyes. Hi, and welcome back to the It Could Be Your Eyes Podcast. , I'm your host, Dr. Juanita Collier, and today I have my co-host with me, Jessica Liedke. Hey everyone. And we're gonna be talking all about parent advocacy. You know, really kind of digging into what can parents do when they have no idea what to do to help their kiddo that school systems and everybody else might be saying totally fine and hitting grade norms and everything like that, but you still know that something's not really how it should be.

Jessica Liedke: A lot of our parents call us because they just know. It's kind of like that inner knowing that mama knowing that there's more that they could be doing for their children, but all the traditional avenues are not providing any answers. And so with talking to Michelle today, we get to hear about one mother's advocacy journey and what effect it's had on her child as well as children all over the world, really. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: And I think that it really does go to show, you know what? One dedicated parent can do because we have our amazing guest today, Michelle Hillman, who co-founded the Facebook page, vision Therapy Parents Unite, which I think has over like 30,000 members at this point.

And I think Jess is gonna tell us a little bit more detail about that. But because of her journey with her son, she was able to make such an impact on so many thousands and thousands and thousands of people. And so, you know, it's kind of like once you really get determined, You do whatever you can. You might feel like just you're one person, but then you see that you can affect the lives of millions.

So Jess, tell us a little bit about Michelle Hillman. 

Jessica Liedke: So Ms. Hillman is a global public speaker and educator for vision therapy and autism, and she's also the mother of two wonderful children. She was compelled to co-create vision therapy. Parents unite the Facebook group in June of 2013, due to her son's multiple Mises and the miraculous way in which vision therapy supported his functioning.

This group has 33,000 plus global members. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Oh, so I was a little bit low on that. Yeah. 33,000 plus. There we go.

Jessica Liedke: she's been an advocate in many areas, including medicine, law, and education. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: And so without any further ado, let's hear from Michelle about her journey and how she really has affected the lives of so many all around us.

Jessica Liedke: If you could make a positive change in your child's reading ability and confidence with reading in just 20 minutes a day, he would jump at the opportunity, right? Of course he would. The 4D Built to-Read program trains you the parent to become a junior vision therapist and provides you with. Tools, activities and support.

You need to give your child a strong visual foundation so they can read, play, and take on whatever challenges they face. If your child is too bright to be struggling and getting low grades, or you've been told that in-office vision therapy would help, but you just can't find the time to commit. The 4D Built to-Read program may be just what you're looking for at a fraction of the cost.

Visit 4D Built to read.com or check out the show notes for a link to learn more. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Hi Michelle. You're so happy to have you here and we're super excited to hear all about your son's story and how you started Vision Therapy Parents Unite and everything. So, can you tell us a little bit about what brought you to Vision Therapy?

Michele: Sure. Thank you for the introduction, , and I'm happy to be here. So back when he was about 15 months old, Mr. Business runs in his father's side of the family, so took him to the ophthalmologist because we've been told ophthalmologists are the experts and they know everything. So took him to the ophthalmologist and he said he asked for.

Let's, uh, put him in a patch and we'll see how he does for about two months, and then we'll go from there. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: And just as a reminder to everybody, strabismus is like their, his eye was turning. So was it turning in, was it turning out? What were you noticing? 

Michele: It could go either way. Okay. So it wasn't, it wasn't one or the other, and it was both eyes, so he could control it.

One eye than he could with the other. Okay. If that makes sense. Okay. Mm-hmm. , and at this stage, he didn't have his developmental milestones. And set in place. So he was still not able to talk well and things like that. So it was kind of like hard to ask him questions and him give feedback, stuff like that.

Dr. Juanita Collier: Exactly. At that 15 month point, was he like crawling, was he walking? How was he doing with his gross motor skills? 

Michele: So he was crawling and he was walking, but. when he crawled. I didn't know this then I learned this later on. Uh, when he crawled, he would crawl. Not the normal way that you're supposed to crawl to meet the developmental milestones.

He would kinda like do a crab crawl. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. , we see a lot of that. We see a lot of the scooting.

Michele: I didn't know. I thought he was fine. Exactly. Yeah. Uhhuh and the pediatrician didn't say anything about it or whatever. So 

Jessica Liedke: they're getting from point A to point B. Who cares. Right. . 

Michele: Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

You know. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: And now they've taken, crawling out as a developmental milestone, so that's a whole nother kettle of fish there. 

Michele: That's a whole nother, yeah. Yes, that's It's crazy. . So we went to the appointment. He said, okay, let's patch him for like two months and then see how he does come back. Okay. So trying to keep a patch on a 15 month old

Yeah. . Can't imagine it's not really good. Right. And he would cry. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Every time I put it on, I, I can't do this because he's crying, I'm getting upset. And I'm like, this isn't, to me. So take him back at 17 months. And doctor of course has, how's he doing patching, I'm. He's not because I can't do this.

You know, he, he's crying and screaming and I'm not gonna force it. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: And especially as a mom, cuz you feel like you're like torturing your child, you know? It's like yes. You don't know what he can see and what he can't see and he's not really able to verbalize it and he just is right explaining, he's expressing to you the best way that he can, that this is absolutely horrible.

So. 

Michele: Exactly, exactly. So he's like, you know, he is not taken to the patch and he needs to have surgery. , and he's 17 months old right now, so. , we, he needs to have surgery before he's two, otherwise he's gonna go blind in one eye. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Oh my goodness. That's terrifying, right? , that's terrifying. Absolutely terrifying.

Michele: Scared everything. Scared me half to death. Like, oh my gosh, I can't have my child go blind in one eye, right? Mm-hmm. , you know? So I'm like, what do I, you know, okay, he's the expert. , here we go. Yep. So, you know, go home and I talk to his dad and all of that stuff. And so we were like, okay. Get the surgery cuz we didn't know anything different, right?

Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So he was 22 months old. It was July of 2006. He had strabismus surgery and at first there was like, you know, there was no problem of course trying to get the drops in his eyes and all of that. That was a battle. But then after that it seemed like a lot of things in his. , he wasn't developing properly.

It seemed like things became a little bit harder for him. And now that I'm looking back mm-hmm. . Yeah. And so when he's trying to ride his bike, he had a bike with, um, training Wheels, the train. Yeah. Thank you. . The training wheels, he's outside riding bikes with all the kids, but then he's running into them with his.

And I'm like, what are you doing? Don't stop. Don't run into them with their, you know, and I'm like, what is going on? What is going on? Exactly. And then he has an older sister. She was good. And she was like, you know, doing Legos and a whole bunch of other things. Well, he wouldn't do Legos. Mm-hmm. . And I'm like, well, I wonder why he, it's not too many Legos.

I get 'em. And he. do nothing with them. Like he couldn't put 'em together, you know, and things like that. And, 

Dr. Juanita Collier: and the good thing for you is that you had an older daughter, so you were able to see that, you know, everyone's different, but like Right. Something's a little bit off because a lot of, when it's your first child, you have absolutely no idea and it's like, you're like, okay, I guess this is normal.

And unless it's not, but who knows? 

Michele: And people were like, oh, he's a boy. Cause my. child is a daughter as a girl. Mm-hmm. . And they're like, oh, he's a boy. He'll catch up soon. And you know, all that stuff. So I'm like, okay. You know, and I'm still not putting pieces together, but I'm noticing, you know, he's in preschool and he's very.

Sensory issued. Like he doesn't like his hands in paint and things like that. And I'm like, what's going on? Okay, well it's just him and you know, different things like that. And he had speech delay, so he was in speech therapy and all of that stuff. And 

Dr. Juanita Collier: when did you start speech therapy for him? . 

Michele: We had a lady from the local early childhood development, 

Dr. Juanita Collier: like birth to three or something like that.

Michele: Yes. Okay. She came in the house and she, she noticed some things and she said, yeah, he needs speech. So he would go to have speech once a week with somebody at like, um, one of like the special ed schools. Okay. Yeah. And things like that. But it wasn't like when he was doing the speech therapy, it wasn't like I saw any improve.

So it was just kind of different. And so he had, he was diagnosed with dysarthria, so an oral motor issue. Okay. How he ate food, like he only liked soft food. Mm-hmm. didn't like any of the hard texture foods, things like that. So, you know, all these things were creeping up on us. And whenever he would look at you, he would start to tilt 

Dr. Juanita Collier: his head 

Telltale sign right there.

Right? 

Michele: Yeah. Okay. Right. And I had no idea. So he's looking with you at one eye and the other eye is going out or wherever it's going. Mm-hmm. . He's really only seeing what the one eye, and I didn't put two and two together, so. At this time for, um, five and under or six and under. He was still in pre-K schools and things like that.

Yeah. And so the one that we had him at was in a different county, but in order for him to get services, we had to take him out of that one and put him one in the county that we were at and all of that. So we finally found an advocate for school who did come out to his pre-K and she was assessing him and she.

Something was off, but she didn't know what it was. But if he would go up to students and play and do things with them and then they wouldn't, Notice him or anything like that. Like they didn't wanna, you know, be bothered or, so she was kind of inquisitive because she was a principal at a special ed school for like 25 years.

Mm. Oh. And so she was kind of stumped at what was going on. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Sorry, let me just interrupt you right there. Let's go back just a little bit. So, A parent advocate. Mm-hmm. , tell us a little bit about what exactly that is. How you even knew that you needed one. Cuz a lot of our parents are kind of searching for like, how do I help my child?

And they're just, you know, going by what the pediatrician's saying or what the school's saying, and they're saying like, oh, everything's normal. Or it's like low average and all of this stuff. So how did you know that you needed a parent advocate? And what did that even mean for you when you were looking?

Michele: To be honest with you, it's been been so long ago cuz he is now 18 . So I'm trying to get my brain around there. So I think what happened was I, I put out a call, I think on Facebook really to like all my friends and said, Hey, you know, I'm looking for an advocate for school to help my son because we were, we were gonna put him in private school, but the private school wasn't gonna be able to help.

So we ended up putting it in public school. So luckily one of our friends reached out to us and said, Hey, contact so-and-so. Mm-hmm. , and she, she could probably help you. And she had just retired as the principal of the special ed school. So that's what we did. And um, she, out of all of her years in school, which isn't really surprising to me, but she never.

Saw vision is how we see vision now, right? Yes. So at that point, I don't believe he was diagnosed yet, but going back to like his life at age four or five, I noticed he was standing like less than two feet from the TV and it was a huge big screen tv. And I'm like, he's like less than two feet away and he's right up on the tv, what's go, something's going on.

And we were going back to the ophthalmologist every six months.. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Okay. And how is his vision progressing? 

Michele: He's saying, oh, his vision's, he's got 2020 vision. He's got 20, 20 visions. His eyes are perfectly aligned. Mm-hmm. , his eyes were perfectly aligned to a T. Okay. So you couldn't I couldn't tell anything. I thought he was seeing how I was seeing, yeah.

Right. Mm-hmm. , right. We all do this. Oh, he sees how I see. Then he needed glasses, so we got him glasses. And finally when he was in kindergarten, throughout his kindergarten year, he's got a late birthday, so he was kind of like a, you know, a year ahead of everybody else and age wise, right? He had a really good ot.

And so at the end of the I E P meeting, I had talked to her and she said, well, I have my own private practice, and it just happened to be right up the street from us. And I said, okay, well, I wanna help him transition from kindergarten to first grade and kind of get him. More in line with different things, like how, how things are gonna be and things like that.

And she's like, okay, that, that's fine. So she said, bring them on up. I'll do some, you know, tests and things like that and we'll see what we can do. I said, okay. So we did, and, and about a month into it, she said, Hey, I'm noticing some things. With his vision. And I said, what do you mean? She's like, well, I'm not sure yet.

Let me do the test and then let me see what happens. I said, okay. She did the uh, SIP test, sensory integrion practice test. Mm-hmm. , and she said, I think his vision is off. , and of course I'm defensive. I said, what do you mean His vision is all , 

Dr. Juanita Collier: We did surgery and everything. 

Jessica Liedke: We did everything the eye doctor told us to do. . 

Michele: Yes, exactly.

I I said, you know, he had surgery and you know, he is got 2020 vision and all. She's like, She's trying not to get too involved in it, I can tell. And she's like, I think you need to contact one of these doctors. So call and you know, find out about vision therapy and things like that. So I was like vision therapy and I did hear about it from another mom in a playgroup and she kind of dismissed it, but didn't elaborate too.

So I called, I made an appointment and me and his father talked about it and I said, you know, I said, I wanna call around to some places to see what's going on. You know, see, see what, what this vision therapy's about. So I called like Wilmer Eye Clinic. I called other ophthalmologists offices. I called, I called even my ophthalmologist's office, and lo and behold,

When I called the office, I talked to the lady who goes in, like the nurse, I guess you will, um, before the doctor comes in and we were on a, on a name basis. And I said, oh, hey, you know, I wanna know what do you know about vision therapy? And she's like, oh wow. Vision therapy. It is awesome. She said, it saved my life at age 18.

Wow. Yeah. Your expression said it all. Yeah. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: That's not what I was expecting. That was a turn in the story .

Michele: I know, right. And I was like, wow. I was like, okay, tell me more. So she was talking to me about it, you know, that was like the bright light that I needed to hear mm-hmm. to say, okay, we can't leave any stone unturned.

Mm-hmm. , we've gotta do this because if we don't do this, we won't ever know. Mm-hmm. . Exactly. And in school, you know, he's. . He's not coloring well, he's not writing well. He's not speaking well. All of these developmental milestones are going by the wayside. He's getting older. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Exactly. Because like parents kind of like from your story, it's like he's having difficulty with writing a spike.

He's having difficulty with coloring, he's not doing Legos. All these things where it's like, Okay. These seem off, is it a personality thing or is it an inability thing? Mm-hmm. . And like really trying to make that distinction and also not make him wrong. At the same time, if it is a personality thing, he just doesn't like it.

Michele: Right. Yep. And also I had gotten, his sister had a dsi, those old gaming things way back in the day, 20 years ago, you know? And so I said, well, lemme get one. Get him one of those. Maybe that'll be a motivator. You know? He wouldn't even touch it. Didn't like it, wouldn't touch it, nothing. So I. What, you know, what's going on.

So anyhow, back to the, to his story. I made the appointment and we went to the appointment and oh my goodness, the doctor is assessing him and she says, Did you know that your son is seeing double? I about come unglued off of my chair and I said, what do you mean he's seeing double ? 

Dr. Juanita Collier: We had the surgery, we did everything.

Michele: Yes, we did everything that we were supposed to do by the so-called experts. Mm-hmm. . She was very nice. And as a mom hearing this, thinking that you've done all the right. , and you're hearing this for the first time, you know, I came unglued and all of that and, but I was glad that I, I learned everything, you know, because yeah.

Everything that she said made sense, you know, common sense. Mm-hmm. , she said the good news is we can help him. He still has strabismus. Mm-hmm. , which I was like, what do you mean? He still has str That's what he wanted his surgery for. . She's like, yeah, he had strabismus, he had amia, he had no converge. No stereopsis, no 3d, no binocular vision.

No. You know, the whole gamut. Nothing. He had nothing. And I felt so horrible as a mom. That guilt set in. Oh my goodness. . Mm-hmm. , as you can tell, it's still kind of fresh there in my , in my voice, although I've improved over the years. , so, so she said we can help him, and she said, let's get him Envision therapy once a week.

I said, okay. It was like gonna be like two or three months delayed before we could get him in division therapy. I think he started. January of February. I think the eval was like in November, October or November, and we couldn't get in until like January for him to start therapy. So we went in and he did vision therapy and within four to six weeks he was reading, he was writing better.

Uh, part of this that I kind of skipped over, he was back when he was five, five or six. He was diagnosed. By a neuro behaviorist with autism. P D D N os. Mm-hmm. , so pervasive development disorder, not otherwise specified. And he was having some bedwetting issues, things like that. So then we had him envision therapy.

So after about a year in vision therapy, I took him back to that same neuro behaviorist and he redid the eval and he was then diagnosed with Asperger's. Mm-hmm. . So come to find out that the test that the neuro behaviorist. gave him to do, were all paper based. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Exactly. So you're getting a diagnosis based on visual input.

Michele: So he couldn't read or he couldn't write? Mm-hmm. . Yep. So those tests, each of them were $2,500 out of pocket, not covered by insurance. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Each time. Exactly. And that was a long time ago. So now you think, how much is that? Yes, exactly. So going back with your story, you essentially did everything right? You got him in birth to three, you went to the pediatrician, you went to the ophthalmologist, you went to the neuro behaviorist, you checked off all the boxes, you had him in speech, you had the OT evaluation.

What could have helped earlier on? It's so frustrating for so many parents, and a lot of parents don't even know all the options that you had. You did the parent advocate. You kind of did everything imaginable and still just happened. Upon finding the solution, what specific questions should parents be asking and how could they shorten the, the timeline?

Michele: Getting outside of the mainstream healthcare system and diving deeper into more functional avenues. Mm-hmm. ? Yeah, would definitely be a number one. A number one at my, my list. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . Okay. And I think that it's not just a, knowing what I know now. With some of these conditions, strabismus and uh, TBIs and things like that because I've had a TBI that I've recovered with through vision therapy, my daughter as well, there is so much more to the functional side of things.

For, say, cranial sacral therapy. You've got Atlas orthogonal, you've got, uh, primitive reflex integration. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: I'm not familiar with the Atlas orthogonal that you just said. I feel like I've seen that term, but I don't know what it is. 

Michele: So it's basically a special chiropractor who, uh, takes their own x-rays. and it's typically from like the neck, uh, cause it's like your atlas here in your neck.

Mm-hmm. , and I don't even know the name of the machine. I, I have gone to one and greatly, I improved my quality of life in so many ways as well. But if the atlas is off and like you have a head tilt mm-hmm. , things like that, they can make the atlas or help the atlas go straight. So it changes the way that the eyes.

I'm probably gonna use the wrong words, but this is how I perceive it. For me, it, it helps the eyes align better, straightens out because if your head is tilted, your eyes are gonna be off. Right. They're not, they're not gonna be seeing the same point. So, exactly. Seeing an atlas orthogonal has greatly improved.

My life and several other people that I know of their lives as well, especially with doing vision therapy. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Yes, we tell our patients all the time, like if they're going to chiropractic, that we need to like be in constant communication with their chiropractor because the eye sit on top of this thing. So it's just like they're balancing in there.

And so anything that's gonna change your posture, anything that's gonna change how your. Like cranial sacl, all of those things change how your visual assistant's functioning. So, you know, we kind of all need to work together, which is why we speak to everybody that our patients go to, because we just wanna make sure that we're all on the same page.

Everyone's, you know, working together. There's a lot of cooks in the kitchen and we wanna make sure we're making the same meal. . 

Michele: Exactly. And um, even acupuncture . I had a, uh, acupuncturist that does sound and vibrational healing as well. Mm. And that really helped too. But the cranial sacral for the occipital lobes and everything has been amazing as well for many things in my group and vision therapy.

Parent, I, I shouldn't say my group, it's our group cuz it's a collective and it's amazing. . Oh, thank. Some of the things that I share with parents right off the bat that I've gotten slack for , um, or flack for, is to look at diet, nutrition. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , because you want to eat as clean as possible. Stay away from sugar, carbs, and dairies, and to look at primitive reflex integration to look at cranial sac work.

Uh, heavy metal toxins, mold exposure. C S t, things like that because those to me, are the ones that I have come across out of the last, almost 10 years now with having the group being, being formed. Those are some big, major things that I think will help parents. along the way. Definitely. And I know it's not easy, it's not easy to do clean eating or stay away from sugar, carbs, and dairies.

I know. But if you wanna make some, if you wanna make some really good headway nine days in , that's, that's the way to do it. And I, and, and I say this because I speak from experience. Mm-hmm. , I had two car accidents in 2017. didn't find out until 2019 when my life was spiraling outta control. Went to four MDs and they couldn't tell me what it was.

When I finally went to the, to the vision therapy doctor and he diagnosed me with a head injury. Mm-hmm. , I was good. I knew that. , they were gonna help me and I was doing clean eating because with the TBI, I wasn't able to process taking food outta the refrigerator to then be able to cook it on the stove.

Mm-hmm. , I couldn't process that. So alls I was drinking was water and basically salads, and I lost about 30 pounds. Oh wow. Doing that for six. . It's not easy, but your life is much better for it. You know your quality of life. And that's what I just tell everybody. Vision therapy is a better quality of life.

Jessica Liedke: Right.

Dr. Juanita Collier: Exactly. Like when people are thinking about their vision, they're really just thinking about eyesight. Right? And so if you're just thinking about eyesight, all of the things that your son. Weren't related to that. You know, if we're thinking only about eyesight, the cranial sacral and the chiropractic and everything like that wouldn't affect that.

And so when we're looking at our eyes and the visual system, we have to go so far away from the concept of like eyesight, because your vision is so much more than eyesight. You can see pretty blurry and still be able to function very, very. If your vision is a little bit off, no matter how 2020 your eyesight is, you won't be able to function appropriately.

Right. And, and that's what I tell people. It's, it's a rewiring of the brain, but it's also a rewiring of all the internal body systems. Mm-hmm. . Exactly. Because your vision is your most dominant sense. And when that is off, it's almost like a football, this is what I also say, it's like a football team. If you have.

A one team heading up to Super Bowl and that team that say that quarterback gets hurt and they're outta the game and they're five games away from the Super Bowl or whatever, right? Mm-hmm. , what's gonna happen to that team when they bring in this rookie quarterback? It's gonna throw the team off. Exactly.

So it's gonna throw all those other players and everything off. It's the, it's the same thing with your body. Mm-hmm. , it's throwing all those other SY systems. Auditory, sensory, everything, you know, I mean, sounds and being enclosed in a store or, or whatever, that it's, uh, . 

Exactly. And so much of speech development has a lot to do with vision because you're watching people move their mouths and you're learning how, like what your tongue is supposed to do, what your lips are supposed to do when you're making different sounds.

So you mentioned your son's speech delay. How did his speech change once you guys. In therapy, 

Michele: he started speaking better and he was having more words, developing, more words to say. He's always been a quiet young boy. So even till this day, he does not say a lot. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Oh, I don't have those. Mine are five and seven and quiet's not one of the adjectives for mine. . Yeah. My daughter. I'm like, Addison old at home. Nope. Yeah. I tell her it's okay to just have silence. Like we can just like sit and listen to our thoughts. And she's like, yeah, but I was thinking, I was like, no. In your head.

Michele: Yeah. Oh, sometimes his sister makes up for. You know, you go and she, but she was really good because she was obviously closer to, to him in age. I would rely on her to tell me sometimes what he was saying. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. It, it was very interesting. But he, so he doesn't, again, he doesn't say much, but now he, his sense of humor.

Is coming along and he, he's a senior this year. He'll, he'll be graduating in May. It's good to see him come back with a lot of like, Humor when he says something, you know? Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I can tell that there's a lot of processing going on in his head 

Dr. Juanita Collier: and now he's able to express it. Yeah. 

Jessica Liedke: That's awesome.

Dr. Juanita Collier: It's almost like before he was kind of like trapped without the ability to really express himself. Like he knew he wasn't seeing properly, he knew he couldn't like, you know, function in space properly, and he also knew he couldn't get the words out. So it's, it's. What that experience needed to be like for him must have been really, really hard, you know?

Yeah. So now he's able to, to experience the world and express it. That's amazing. Yeah. 

Michele: He was in fight or flight for a very, very long time. Mm-hmm. . And, um, he's been doing, uh, cranial sacral work. He's had Atlas work done and he's, um, much more calmer now. He still likes to kind of be. being around a lot of people and a lot of noise and stuff is still not good for him, you know?

Mm-hmm. , he, he'd rather be quiet and alone or just at peace, you know, that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. , 

Jessica Liedke: and there's nothing wrong with that either, you know? Right. That's. Totally how a lot of us just choose to be, I'm an extrovert. My husband is definitely the introvert, you know, , I'll take it from here, honey. You know, like, but he does, he every, I think everybody has that kind of like, need for either the stimulation or the, the quiet.

And there's nothing wrong with that. It's that, that he can. Make it known and make it like, express that he needs that or that it's something he chooses rather than something he necessarily need, need, need. This is where he's happy. This is where he's good. 

Michele: Right. Yeah. That's what it sounds like. When he, um, when he was going through weekly vision therapy appointments, because he had been in vision therapy for years, he still needs a lot more vision therapy, gross spurs and different things over the years.

But when he was going through vision therapy, he was going every, every week on Wednesday. At that time, I didn't realize that when he was going, cuz I would, um, have him go early in the morning so he wouldn't even go to school. We'd go right to VT and then I'd take him back and put him into school. and those days were like the hardest for him.

And I had no, no idea what I was doing. By having him go back to school, he'd come home and he was so stressed, the poor little thing, and he'd go right up to his room and just chilled. Didn't want nobody around him or anything. And I understand now why having gone through vision therapy, because it really takes a.

Out of you mentally, physically, emotionally, I didn't wanna do anything. I just wanted to go to bed after I had vision therapy, you know? 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Exactly. 

Jessica Liedke: I say to our patients, you know, we call ourselves 4D Vision Gym because it's a gym. You're getting a workout. 

Michele: It is . Yes, exactly. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Yes. You're actively reprogramming your brain, and that is exhausting.

Mm-hmm. ? 

Michele: Yes, I was doing two minutes of exercise. and I was on the couch for, for two hours, two to three hours after, just two to three minutes of exercises when I first started. And then it, that's when it really hit me, oh my gosh, what did I do to my son . Yeah. You know, like, cuz you don't know because you're not experiencing it.

You're not, you're not living their life. And he couldn't tell me how he was feeling. So I had no 

idea. 

Jessica Liedke: Had a couple parents go through and say the same sort of thing. Like, oh, oh, this is 

what , 

Michele: this is what it's like. Oh yeah. Uhhuh . 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Even sitting through their first exam, like, you know, you hear the parents like chuckle when their kids are in the chair, and then when they're in the chair it's like, oh yeah, now you know, you keep those chuckles to yourself.

Uhhuh, . 

Michele: Exactly, exactly. I have newfound. For everyone that comes through or does vision therapy, because if you haven't experienced it yourself, you have no idea. , you know, it's that empathy kind of thing. Exactly. Unless you yeah. Have done it, you dunno, but I'll say this, it's the best thing I've ever done for me.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. doing that. Cranial sacl and acupuncture. . Three of the best things that I did for myself when I had my T B I. Yeah, 

Dr. Juanita Collier: yeah. And that's the thing cuz it's, yes, it's a lot of work, but it's so empowering because it gives you back control over your life. Yes. You mentioned that, you know, like your life is kinda like spiraling and it's like once you had the answers and the tools to get things back together, then you have your life back and that's priceless, you know?

Michele: That's it. Yeah, exactly. You can't put a price tag on life. Exactly. You've got it. Or you. And I want it. I want life, and I want it to be good . I want that quality of life. Yes. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Oh my goodness. Thank you so much for this. I feel like this was so great and it's wonderful to hear it from a parent who's been through it, but then also a parent who's had a concussion as well and like, you know, saw vision therapy from a whole nother ass.

And everything that you're doing to give back to other parents out there so that they can get to the answer faster and they can, you know, have a resolution for their kiddos faster and that they have such access to this huge community that you've built. Of other parents who are going through the same thing.

It's just, it's absolutely amazing and I just think that it's so great what, what you've done and what you're doing. 

Jessica Liedke: Definitely. 

Michele: Thank you very much. Thank you. Yeah. When I, one of the ways or how V T P U came about was I said to the doctor, Year after he was, um, M B T I said to her, I was like, how come nobody knows about this?

Why aren't the doctors speaking up? Why, you know, this is like, great, everybody should have this, you know? Mm-hmm. , or at least have an exam to rule it out. And she's like, well, they won't believe the doctors. So that's why doctors don't, don't put it out there. So I don't know where I was on Facebook, but I was in some group and another mom, Kelly Snedden, who's the, the, the co-founder, she and I are co-founded V T P U.

We just happened to be, In a group and we said something about vision therapy and next thing you know, we dmd each other and we're like, let's, let's create a group . And that's how it started. So we did. So she created it. 

Jessica Liedke: How many people are in there now? There's. Like 30, 

Michele: over 33,000 global members. Wow. Wow.

Yeah. 

Jessica Liedke: That's amazing. 

Michele: Yeah. We have prob, well, the last I saw was 99 countries, so we probably have a hundred countries right now. Oh my goodness. Represented in the group. 

Jessica Liedke: That's a lot. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Yeah. And think of how many lives that represents that you have, you know, played a role in changing. Exactly. That's amazing.

Michele: It's a team. Yeah. It's teamwork. I did it kinda by myself. I think three or four years. And then I kind of got some more admins involved, some other ladies who were active in the group and um, said, Hey, do you wanna be an admin? You know, they're like, really? I'm like, yeah. come help me. So, uh, so they did, oh, 

Jessica Liedke: this is big

Michele: Yeah. Yeah. It was, it, it, cause it's big, you know, and, and when you're trying to, to ramp it up and to teach people and all of that, and then different time zones and you need more eyes than one and you know, if you're working during the day, you need people to cover when you're not, you know, when you're, when you're at work and all of that stuff, you know, so, and learning about their life journey through their children and everything.

It was. , everybody had different diagnoses, so we were able to see the gamut of, oh, this is that. That's that. Oh, this is that, and that, and. Of course we're in different groups and then we're hearing about this, you know, like cranial sacral at Atlas orthogonal, we're hearing about primitive reflexes, all of this stuff, and we're like, oh wow.

So then other people are coming in, they're talking about this stuff, and so it's just, it's grown into a wealth of knowledge. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Exactly. It's such a good resource. 

Michele: Right. And with different diagnoses, nystagmus and. I think elar Danlos, alors syndrome. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Um, you know, there's a lot of different, um, conditions and it's just things that I've never even heard of or seen.

And we have a, a post under the feature tab that tells everybody, you know, what B T P U is about, the group rules, and then we have links to different v. Vision therapy site sites, you know, or Facebook groups because there's some out in, uh, like Australia and England and 

Jessica Liedke: I know you guys have been really helpful to people saying like, Hey, I need to find a, a VT doctor near me.

Here's my zip code. Can you help? And everybody kind of chimes in. And then, cuz I know we've had some patients find us that way and mm-hmm. and it's been just such a, a great network. Is there anything else that has come out of this group? Was interesting to you to help you be a better advocate for your son.

What about that group and that experience? inspired you to, to take it to the next level of not just saying, okay, well I got help from my son, now I'm gonna spread the word and help the world. 

Michele: Yeah. Um, , that was like a huge dream, you know, like mm-hmm. , like mm-hmm. putting it out to the world like, Hey, , you know, this would be great if it could reach, you know, this place and that place and everything.

And you know, then when we were seeing people come in and where they were from and all of this we're like, wow, you know, this is amazing. It was like every thousand people was a win, you know? At first it was like the first hundred people, hey, hundred people, and then it was like 500 and then a thousand.

And then C O V D. Yeah, they came in and started talking to. and I was able to go out to San Diego and a couple other conferences and things, symposiums and things that the doctors have put on and, um mm-hmm. , they announced the, the group there and I think at that point we had 1,382 people or something in the group at that point.

And that was really cool. And so the name just kept growing and growing. It. It's just been amazing to, to help people and it's more frustrating for us when people come into the group and they're in a country that there is no vision therapy doctor. Yeah. Because you see the people and it tug tugs at your heartstrings because you wanna help 'em, but they can't leave their country or.

it's, you know, a long way away and they can't do it, that kind of thing. So that really, it's like, oh man. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Well, hopefully through the advocating that you're doing, I'm sure you must be inspiring more people to become behavioral optometrists and everything, you know, , so it's kind of just like you're doing this on such a big.

Scale, and I hope that from doing this podcast that your, um, members grow even more and that we can just be a little flipp in helping you help everybody. Thank you. So thank you so much for coming on today. This was wonderful. 

Michele: I did help someone become a B T O D Oh, my, my day in my day job, ironically enough, I was helping a young woman.

She was there doing some intern. . And at the end of the intern work, she, she and I talked and, and she's like, oh yeah, I wanna become an optometrist. And I was like, you wanna become an optometrist? What made you do this? And so she told me and I said, well, have you ever heard of developmental or behavioral optometry?

And she was telling me she likes to help kids and all of that. And she said, no, I've never heard. So we sat down and we talked for like an hour and um, I think she's just done with her college, so Oh, she's, that's amazing. She's doing that now. Yeah. So I did get one so far that I know that I actually helped, 

so, yeah.

And, and she did get married. During her, uh, her time at college. Yeah. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Oh, wow. That's so great. See, you're changing even more lives. Oh my goodness. This is amazing. Thank you so much for coming on, and we hope to have you back again soon and hear more about your story as a concussion patient and everything.

And this was just so great. Thank you. Sure. 

Michele: Thank you all. I greatly appreciate the opportunity. Thanks for doing everything that you do. 

Jessica Liedke: Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the It Could Be Your Eyes Podcast. To schedule an appointment with Dr. Collier, visit us@4dvisiongym.com to train your vision at home.

Visit us at. 4D Vision therapy@home.com. Rate and review our podcast and email a screenshot to receive 10% off a new evaluation or any of our digital programs. Subscribe to join us for more eye-opening episodes as we dive deep into all the ways that it could be your eyes.